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You never know and for those using our software, they couldn't give a rats backside where we are as long as we keep doing what we've been doing! What matters is reputation, product, development, performance, backup, training, support, knowledge and commitment. It is fast becoming common knowledge that we excel and rise above the pack in all of these important areas.

Kevin Riddell Director A. I just had a read of BettorTrader site. While it is true they are using mathematics, it's not the mathematics of trading. It is the mathematics of analysing racing data to minutest detail. They have hundreds of variables that they have learned over time that affects how the horses run. You make money from racing the same as you do in any other pursuit. Hard work, attention to detail, and leaving nothing to chance.

Anybody that had software that could win you money would not be selling it. It would never see the light of day. Because once something is in the public domain it is basically worthless even if if it does work. Even though it must deter most prospective customers except the mugs. PW, whoooaa Highly assumptive of you say I know nothing. We have many clients that say otherwise and you are NOT one of them. You say it has nothing to do with trading?? When we are following the money from all you hard working form analysts by way alerts, charts and algorithms and using strict disciplines while doing so, we ARE trading.

In the share market for instance - and I'll cut and paste your exact comments here - when trade in that particular market it is about Befair have exchanges for in play betting, laying etc. This IS trading and it is a fine and exacting art. It was 13, 8 and 4. The only horse I had heard of was the Brave Ruler.

What did I know about the form of those horses? Not a thing. Then there was amongst other things Hvar Surprise at Ararat R7. Again, based on nothing other than criteria relating to money flow. I can take an absolute stranger off the street and tell them whet to look for and within an hour they will pick a winner if there is one to see. Hey, if you think you're such a know it all humour me I don't want you to buy it because knowing it all, you can't be taught but I'd love to 'hear' the silence as the penny drops when you see what we're doing as it does with so many punters.

The thing with what we do PW is that, we don't sell as a home based business or get rich quick scheme and we make no promises or tell you how much money you can make, we don't advertise, we don't telemarket, we don't have flash pictures of yachts and people in suits jumping for joy with their kids in front of them.

So why are we selling software??? Because it works maybe? No that couldn't be true, could it? It wouldn't be because people see us making real money in front of their eyes while they are watching Sky Racing or because we know our stuff in and out?? It must be because you are right and we are all wrong.

It didn't happen. God help me I'm going mad. The fact is PW, it isn't just the software. It's the knowledge that comes with it that you seem to think we know so little of TRADING and the experience of using bettordata for years and knowing how to make money from it. See, tomorrow many will most likely back 6 favourites in an hour, be up and down like a yoyo and call it a fun day.

We will wait for right signals and back 3 horses in an hour and most likely paying big overs. So please tell me PW, what exactly is the 'mathematics of trading'. You say a product like this would not see the light of day and that once it is out there it would lose it's worth. Now I guess you're going to tell me that it would shorten the odds etc with all going on the same runner. Some of our clients use the data and place their bets with Betfair or other online bookies.

As for your comments about hard work, this is no black box system. It does not make decisions for you although we are incorporating a rating type system for those that love exotics and the few who prefer dutching. You show your absolute ignorance throughout the whole message when you say that if someone had such a tool, they would not sell it.

We don't say that but some have. Are you saying you can't make money with a good share trading program? Of course you can Same here. You have obviously been left behind with the dinosaurs. Hey, it happens. It's a big new world out there PW.

Maybe you should get out from under your rock and see what's really happening. Compared to the 10k to 30k programs that mostly DO NOT do what they say they will, it is priced quite competitively. Our clients receive training and support for life and some will do training once per week for the first six months if they think it necessary. If someone said they just Want the software because they know everything which is HIGHLY unlikely, they can have it for much less and is negotiated whilst doing the many live demos we do to validate the product.

While doing demos it is often real money being used and it is quite obvious to anyone who talks to us that we mean business. PW, this was never intended to be a thread about all this but if you would like to continue, do it in person and view the facts. There is no point arguing about something YOU know nothing about Before anyone else starts to shred the thread and Bettortrader with no regard for the fact you don't know it, please read the posts from similar comments last year on Whirlpool.

Jeez, I though my bloody wife could talk. Too long winded for me. I lost interest very fast. The teams are not traders. You try to imply an association, when there is none. You certainly would not be able to follow their money either, because the intent of those teams is to be the last to invest before the race is underway. They only bet when they have a positive expectation. They are not going to put money on early, as they know others would pick it up, and then they would be saying goodbye to their value.

What really happens is that by the the time your clients saw what happened it would be too late for them to jump on board. Sure there will be lots of idiots and gamblers making big bets that the gullible might follow, but in the main they will simply be losers too. By the way, you can't bet in play with Betfair from Australia. It is illegal and Betfair stops it. Did you know that the head of one those betting teams also owns a hefty part of Betfair?

Once again you are making an ass out of yourself assuming what we can and can't see. As far as not being able to see what goes on late, believe me we can and do and with enough time to still bet. So you know of the Bettordata feed do you?

Obviously not otherwise you wouldn't be arguing about seeing the money come in late. You are all high and mighty saying you know more than me about betting software and computer teams LOL!!! You must be psychic or have some sort of crystal ball to know so much about a person you have never met or even spoken to. You would have to be the most ignorant person I have ever had the great pleasure of talking to. We can see all the blind following the blind The bottom line is this and there can be no further argument.

We take you through some of the main ones. For all betting and account queries, email ausinfo betfair. Crawl back to wherever it is you came from and stop with your know-it-all banter because you actually don't. Now i saying that, I am learning everyday how to do things better.

You know why, because I don't profess to know everything and that tends to allow me to have an open mind and ear. Andy Leake I know all about Bettordata, and yes it is quick, but unfortunately not quick enough for your clients to follow the smartest money which is mostly bet as late as possible.. If it is done early, as I admit it sometimes is, depending on which pool it goes into, it is done in trickles, not at once, so as not to alert the bottom feeders.

Your small betting clients have to pay for the Bettordata feed I assume. Not cheap for little players, I would not imagine. Do you think cutting and pasting something off Betfair enhances your credibility? I am not saying people can't trade and make money off it by backing and laying. There are lots of people doing so with the help of Betfair and the other betting agencies, but is has NOTHING to do with those computer teams that you say trade when they don't.

All I said with regards to Betfair, was that you can't bet inplay with betfair from Australia and you can't. Why even mention it? You're an angry man justadash. Interesting that you say that. Why have a website if it does not say anything? Why don't you just do it yourself if it is so good? I think anybody with half a brain knows the answer to that. Yes I do have more questions. Andy Leake is NOT bettordata. You obviously did a quick Google search and came up with subscriptiondata did you?

So who is Bettordata again? Who owns it? Where does it come from? Do you use it? Have you ever? Have you ever seen our software? Who the hell are you? Look this is my last reply to your crap. I am angry. You are pig headed, ignorant and arrogant to the point that it it doesn't really matter what we have and how well it works because you will ALWAYS have some negative BS to add to it.

You have not answered one question from my previous posts. The Betfair extract was an attempt to show you that the industry DO in fact at times and epending on who you are talking to, refer to themselves as traders and the what they practice as trading. Now if you'll excuse me, it is Saturday and it IS time to start making money. Most of the comments I see on these forums are very obviously made by people who are losers or just plain do not know what they are talking about.

I will say right now I use bettortrader and I spent 4 Months researching all the available software or all the ones I could find. Most of us with even half a brain no whats involved. You have to do the hard yards If you want to become a succsessfull punter. Bettortrader is just a very smart tool that you use to help make the right decisions. It will not make you a millionare overnight and the Company does not make wild claims that it will.

What you get is a lifetime of training and advice and a software program that I think is far and away better than any of the others that I have tested. Yes, I make money and Yes, I lose as well. Horses have bad hair days as well. The bottom line is my Bank balance is going up with the help of this software. Why dont all the knockers go and get a life No doubt some smartarse will come back and say Im being paid for my comments Well Im not!!! Where is it that i am wrong?

No, I don't use this data feed, but I do know about it, and would even recommend it for people that could afford it. Some people have their own terminals provided by the TAB, so it is not required. The rest of your rant,I will ignore.

Hopefully people are reading and can make up their own minds. If it stops some people from throwing good money after bad then I will be happy. Subscriptiondata are resellers. Bettordata is owned by Datachannel Australia and the director of that particular company is Tim Ryan. Yes sub'data are the main resellers but then you have others too which I wont bother to mention as they also push their products with it.

The person you have suggested is a liar is a valued client from NZ. Watch your mouth and have some respect. You contradict yourself. You say you would recommend the Bettordata feed but then say that it doesn't work.

Make up your mind. For or against. Now considering you would recommend it, then what program would you recommend to show that data and capitalize on what you see considering the Bettordata feed is specifically designed for 3rd party applications such as ours? You really have no clue and I dare say nothing more than a trouble maker with nothing better to do. Are you having fun yet?

Okay, perhaps I am wrong with who owns the data feeds, but it is irrelevant, it's not the data feeds that I have a problem with. I don't say the data feeds don't work. They are only delivering data after all. What happens to it, after it is delivered to the subscribers is another matter.

I only stated that the computer teams are not traders as you said they are, on your web site. I also say you can't follow the smartest money if it is too late and the race is under way. By the time the information is disseminated by your subscribers it's too late. The biggest price movements you will see after the field has jumped. That's the smartest money.

The software I use is my own and it's not for sale. Now, if your software is so good, then why are you trying to flog it? People have been coming up with these things and flogging them for as long as there has been racing. The people that profit are the vendors, not the gullible purchasers.

If, on the other hand you are just selling software that displays the data and allows you to bet, then it is way overpriced. Goodbye, and the worst of luck with sales! What do you mean the software you use is your own or that it is not for sale. The BS you use , for example , is not yours in the sense of, you purchased it, but either you ripped it off or it was given to you.

It , BS, is definitely for sale. You just didn't buy it. You may have some knowledege of computers and software etc but you are dumb. How can I prove that? Well, for one, if I were the smartest money around, would I wait 'til the death to put my money on and then run the chance of missing the jump.

Doesn't sound too smart to me. One of their competitors was selling the same type of program for less than a quarter of this price. This program, and its website, are quite vague in a way other than to say oh yes we have testimonials but only after the live demo etc Nice money If you can get it I also find it unfortunate that in many of your comments around the traps that non believers are dimwits,or too dumb etc to see it your way.

But putting folks down is of no concern to you because you would not sell them this "opportunity anyway, being as selective as you are Good luck to you Makadollar by the way here is that extract from whirlpool you wrote You're asking me to put my money where my mouth is and as a company, that's what we do every single day - prove what we do - live - making selections before a race starts and telling the prospect to turn on their radio to listen to the race - before it starts!

We now have over very happy clients and growing, in an industry where most of our competitors are struggling because they have no product and dont live and swear by it if they do!! Makadollar, Thanks for your comments and first let me say yes I am an extremely long winded person passionate and no generally speaking I am not the most unlikeable types of people just as I am sure most on this forum are loved by friends and family etc.

But yes I am direct. My bad. In reading this over I thought GOD what a bloody novel but since it's an open topic now and I have never been backward in coming forward, here it is at the risk of being again ripped apart Let me first clarify that wonderful turnover you mentioned. When the first version of our software came out it was available to people for a song compared to - at that time - either equivalent or even lesser products.

You know what everyone said? Why is it so cheap?! People were so wrapped up in the hype other companies threw at them about the exorbitant money they spend on development and say things like "well if Bettortrader's that cheap how long will they be around? With the upgrades has come adjustments in pricing as with all businesses. People have started asking for mobility and thus the options available. In the big bad world of marketing they call it value adding - so our price is comparable with the bottom of the market expectation but we give our right arm with it.

Which is what my business is all about. Going one step further than most. I don't really know what anyone else does EXACTLY other than what I am told by people who own their progs or have seen of them well I do mostly but I will never get into a discussion here about it;.

What I do know is what we do and for what it's worth, that is a damn hell of a lot. Debug, only regarding price and competing products , you say there is a comparable product for a quarter of the price. The only one I would put into this category is Racemate which I believe is quite a featured tool and the owners are racing enthusiasts as well, not marketing machines and thus also have plenty of knowhow behind them.

It is around half the price I think of our software. There have been for and against an again I will not go into what others do based on hearsay as hearsay is not necessarily fact I think they do better with the punters who don't necessarily have to be taught all that we teach people and thus I believe we ma do more training as they are dealing with those who don't have to be taught what an odds on favourite is.

I think they can look at all sorts of things only the avid punter would want but then we may have things that the avid punter may not want to see and so much more on the horizon - we do things differently no doubt and therefore, pardon the pun People have also happily paid more for ours knowing our commitment to further development and the depth of training we provide. I wish. Makadollar just plucked a figure but I can see how albeit the price of the 'software' is also on the website Many have been 2 for 1s etc, promos to a couple of people in the industry and all that.

Although some of the get rich quick type companies are turning half of that over every month I you were talking about Roicware Debug As for never laying a bet, I make more every month from the software than I do from selling it once the fat lady has sang and that is a well know fact amongst most users. In fact, recently we have been seeking investment to take all of our development and business to a whole new level mainly development but you won't ever read abut that stuff on the website as you would have been able to last year.

If you can't tell by now, I'm quite open but hey with some things, once bitten twice shy. There are other softwares out there for 4 times the cost of ours and mostly black box types that require little in the way of training unless the user doesn't know how to click a button. Sounds nice for the busy builder or farmer with no time to learn something else and do the training necessary to get serious results. I personally am doing huge amounts of time with training, support and everything else we do that I hardly see my family even though half the time I'm only in the next room.

We aren't doing the numbers you think because for one, the software is a little more complicated than say an automated dutch betting tool and secondly, we don't lie and or make ridiculous claims. The main part of the cost involved with this type of program is the time it takes to get people up to speed but once they are, they have much more freedom to adopt different strategies and all are unanimous in saying they learn a hell of a lot.

So some will take a trifecta in the same race that someone else is only place betting. We have an open chat group for goodness sakes on Skype every Saturday where many of the clients participate between 11am and 3pm, chatting with each other and helping each other out. Tell me who would dare do that if they thought they were doing all of their clients an injustice especially considering i'm there every minute with them?? Even if they aren't chatting live, they're reading the recommendations from all of us who are and the newbies learn that way.

If only you knew how hard we work you would say the same thing as others have You say They tell you nada other than rubbish about financial freedom from the comfort of your own home in 20 minutes or less with pretty pictures of beach scenery! Get real. But in the same breath I am noit about to let those I compete againsta know all and sundry about how all te mechanics of the software works and what our criteria is.

That has already almost proven fatal and stuff that. I've had companies ask if we would re badge our software and let them sell it. At first it sounded good No way! I had every single detail about every conceivable thing you could do wit the software and the future plans we have for it and you know what, it was plagiarized. So if anyone is serious now the talk to us and they look at it and we shut up ad let the astute decide for themselves.

For starters, yes we have plenty of them but people don't buy because someone else said so. They bu because it works and they get to see it make money and decide from there if te can do what we are showing them.

If there were testimonials would you believe them would you?? Do you believe everything you read? Do you believe everything you see with your own two eyes? Which do you prefer? You see? I know for a fact companies have done that and much much worse. For me and the people who do favour it, this method works I ring up and I say what does your software do?

It gets exlained in detail without the BS as far as I'm concerned at any rate and I decide if I want to see it live or no thanks. I get emails saying great website, direct ad no dream sell just to the point and then i get 'vague' and 'boring' and 'waffle'. Hey, you can please some of the people some of the time I'm waffling. I will say this though, this thread turned into putting people down long before I lost my cool with PW and it was me copping it not anyone else.

I am far from saying the non believing are dimwits I am saying I feel some people are arrogant and rude before they even know the facts of what we do and closed minded. Like I said before it's horses for courses. My wifes uncle owns a well known fruit shop in Lismore Busier than a one legged arse kicker. No computer and wouldn't have a bar of it but he makes a fortune through hours of hard work on form analysis and good on him. We often compare results and although he doesn't like it necessarily like it really shits him at times :7 that I can do what I do with software and knowing nothing about the race itself or the animals in it most of the time, but he respects that I like it and that it works for me regardless.

Thats what most people like about us and its the kind of people who we also attract and that mostly is someone with both feet firmly planted on the ground, not Mr or Mrs Dreamy looking for a way out of the rut but someone with money, time, intelligence, discipline and if punting savvy, depending on what that is they mostly must be willing to forget what they know or break old habits. So with the utmost of respect to someone I don't know other than in text which can often be misconstrued It just aint' me ;- PS - I use my software e-v-e-r-y s-i-n-g-l-e d-a-y Mostly when I win and it's a good day for me, the trained up clients will win and when they lose I perhaps lose lately it's been hard and I think it's been hard for all punters, if it's hard for you guys doing the form its hard for us - mostly Got all my TAB statements etc etc etc and some clients have seen them.

I tell you, if people were a bit nicer, some of them may have more to say but they get shredded. How was PW with strozzi. Look up his ip I'm in Lismore!! Of course we are going to get upset. Anyway, I guess it's supposed to be like water off a ducks back is it?

I personally know of 2 drivers that are about to sell their truck and my twin daughters are apprentice jockeys so I have seen how hard it is hitting some. Hang in there. It can't last forever. I was thinking of Racemate.

If you match their price for your program without the training this would make the all round package cheaper. It still seems exorbitant to me. I am not trying to put you or your program down but just breaking it down to reality. Hi Debug. You can't keep rebuilding software and do all that we do for people, at the level we do, at that cost.

My mistake. Anyway, again I will say what has been said over and over Then there is the training and support that you would just fall over if you new the lengths we go to to make sure everyone is happy and the live chat every Saturday where all love to read the chats from the more experienced etc. In this very competitive market I wont go into exactly why many prefer us over them or anyone for that matter and I prefer not to say at all.

I prefer people make that decision when they speak to us and see the software. As with most things they either love it or they don't. Many love it and spome as just as many of you are on this thread, cautious but not particularly skeptical in the most ignorant sense i. The important thing is that the buyer make up their own mind and not be told by the people they are perhaps thinking about buying off, that they are only ones to be trusted and everyone else is either a rip off shonk or the have a lame under developed product.

Plenty would and do say such things. They say it is a lot more user friendly than others of this type i. All else falls by the wayside as so far as any negative comments from someone who doesn't know what we do and to the depth we commit ourselves to the client. I wont try and justify our position on price on this thread. That is work well spent on potential clients and not here where all and sundry can see competitors namely.

I also don't think it should be a tit for tat type of thing. Some things are truly priced at what they are worth. Some things aren't. The same applies to things that are cheaper. Some people like the AMG model Benz and some think why pay more for a badge. A Benz fan realizes it isn't just the badge. It takes someone who doesn't realize that to drive one and then perhaps they will understand while their lunch settles back down.

Then the differences become truly apparent. If not, oh well it just isn't their thing but for the Benz fan trying to convince the non Benz of the amazing differences behind that badge and the cost associated with it would be both frustrating and also perhaps pointless - especially if the 2 people we are talking about are the Benz salesman on one hand and somebody shopping for a Hyundai on the other that has never heard of AMG let alone afford one or even have any interest in hearing about them.

What a bunch of waffle I hate Benzs'. I can't say if that is true of a software that is more than double the price of ours because I don't know really as I have said in previous posts and again, I wont go into a tit for tat. Now yes in the past I have been quite outspoken about the industry and what goes on but now I don't bother. It gets me in trouble. I will say one thing and that is if someone has wanted a good product that I have had good feedback on and they couldn't afford ours, I will recommend that product to them and do you know who that has been?

It used to be someone else but that someone else is a leech with no ideas or talent other than coding and they are opportunistic in so far as they are scanning to hear of everyone elses ideas that have taken YEARS to formulate through hard work and experience and plagiarizing them. Racemate or any other program, either good or bad, is not the topic of this conversation and I know they are great guys there and don't deserve their name to be brought up in amongst this crap so let's move on.

I would really appreciate it if no-one asked me to compare with other products or the like not saying you did Debug but just in case that's what this turns into. Yes I know there are some I am sure people should stay away from but you won't hear them from me and this thread is not about anyone else. Do your homework. Cyberhorse is the place to start for most. If there is any negative with substance, it'll stand out don't you worry.

What people should be paying for is the surety of knowing the people they have just become involved with will actually care about them after the sale has gone through and that they have the experience to back it up and teach them all they need to know. That and cutting edge technology that does what the vendor says it does and the drive for a better product through research and development. What do you look for in a new car? Some don't really know the market and don't bet with their own software.

How can they possibly sell software to people based on the premise that it works if they don't use it. This is just one of the things to look for when you evaluate a product and it starts with the sales person. Anyway the bottom line here is that most of our clients are extremely happy with the service, the software and the way the business is run and that is the only thing that matters to me being that I am ultimately responsible for them.

Not the company or the software This thread started with someone insinuating a bad air around Bettortrader and mentioned my name and my home address in QLD and I responded to clear that air. Nothing more and nothing less. This should be the last there is to say and hopefully all this will be put to bed so I can go to mine. Everyone talks about cheap software.

Well if that's all that matters then I guess Dr Huang should be rolling in it. At 99cents a day it's a real steal. It does everything but cook your Sunday roast apparently. I guess that's why some of our clients have used that for a while and gotten their feet wet - software and money tracking wise, then when they have realized it isn't just about finding the cheapest software because they all do the same thing, have come and paid good money for ours and all the services we provide and most have reaped the rewards.

Cheap does not always equal a good buy and again that is no reflection on any one in particular. Some of the softwares have not had any development for years. Some just do not back their software up with comprehensive training or knowhow, just push this button push that button and with some black box style programs that's all you really need to do :o I suppose it's horses for courses.

Some are great. It's up to you to do the groundwork and evaluate each product you see - and listen to your gut. We can all be like rabbits. We get caught in the headlights while someone gets their hand in the back pocket. Like a flee market in Thailand with all the bells and chaos, you have to have your wits about you. Take a breath, relax. Make the right choice. You don't have to hurry. These softwares will always be here. Get to know the people and understand the industry and what is on offer.

You'll be surprised to some degree no doubt. If nothing else you'll know a bit more than you did yesterday. Anyway, again I can't seem to grasp the concept of short and sweet or using my 'enter' key so I guess again I'll sign off for now. Please, understand if you can, justifying the product and the subsequent pricing is not about words and this to and fro' that goes on here.

It is not a topic that is really open for debate. The very few copies that were sold at cheaper than full price were to experienced punters that have a wide network of other people in amongst the racing community and who would advocate our software and that was in the earlier days. Many of those people have since rewarded us with referrals and testimonials.

That is testimony enough for me. I have advocated for this industry to be cleaned up through legislation. I have even contacted other companies who I have thought are doing the right thing with a strong ethic to ask if they would get involved, and what do you think happened?? Not even from those who some on these forums swear by and trust and respect.

We believe we are priced competitively given what we do in general, our development innovations, our training skills, customer focus and commitment to growth and development Businesses are in business to make money. Sorry, I know you don't want to argue. I'm tired. Look, there are many reasons for cheaper goods, but to be honest, it is not logistically possible for us to do so with all that we do and again, I mean all with the utmost of respect.

Justadash You've spent hours on this thread telling us how people shouldn't rubbish your product and that it isn't right that people mention opposition products in a poor light. Just in the last post you've named atleast 3 companies and bagged them all.

You've also stated, in similar wording, that any company that sells cheaper than you doesn't give as much value, anyone who is more expensive than you is a ripoff artist and anyone who says they can make more money than you say your software can, is a basically a fraud. I think we've had enough of this commercial. Countn't agree with you more Dino Cheers, F. Welcome to contradiction city guys In fact, so far justadash has rambled on for words in just 8 posts.

It does take some explaining I guess! I was going to ignore you Dinodog, but I must be a glutton for punishment. But I can't let this one go. What is BS? Bet selector? I don't use it, am not interested in using it, and know nothing about it, other than it is a legitimate program as far as I know, unlike the other. I certainly would not call anybody dumb, unless I knew they actually were, and even then probably not. If you have a probability of. The aim of the teams is to maximise their profits.

The size of their bets is only limited by the size of the particular pool they are betting into. The aim although rarely achievable is to be the last bet before jump, because you then know the final odds that can only be changed by your own money into the pool. You then know how much you can bet to maximise your profit. Given past discretions? What, may I ask are you talking about? But I digress.

Some fools are bigger fools than others I suppose. They are NOT based on an ounce of fact. I have offered ways to explain to the thick, that some things are priced accordingly and some are not and that to distinguish between the two means looking into them, not listening to the crap that people like you - who DO NOT know anything about us OR the results we achieve or the way we do business -have to say!!

No I have never said that anyone cheaper or more expensive will or will not provide you with value. I am saying that it isn't just that black and white that you can say cheaper is better and more expensive is not or the opposite rings true.

As for rubbishing the opposition, you are joking aren't you? Where do you get that? This is a about singling out someone for the shredding of the moment and for what? Where is the substance to all of this?? There is none. Here is me rubbishing other companies is it? I mentioned two companies and did far from rubbish them thank you and I quote Don't you dare try and insinuate I put this company down.

How could you read it that way? Explain to me how it is I have rubbished anyone? Should be easy to just cut and paste exactly what I said without you taking it out of context if that is possible for you. This is really boring now. Much like shoveling sand against the tide. There will always be something to whine about and to have a go at and that will, mostly always come from those with absolutely no respect or idea what they are talking about and this case, that is this business, its software a services, our clients, myself and my family.

Our clients love us. You guys don't. Am i missing something here? I don't think so. You don't know me. You don't know my intentions and have tried hard to misconstrue everything I have said. So what is the point to all of this exactly? Don't tell me you're affiliated with one of these companies ad it is your mission in life to put us down or something. You aren't attacking just the company but also myself and questioning my integrity.

Well do either of you have any?? If so you wouldn't be leading the thread in this way. You wouldn't be attacking based on crap. You would respect the fact that no, we don't have any complaints and nowhere will you find a bad word about us Total strangers who know jack squat about me or my company. I have put out the challenge. Cal me personally. Hey my numbers are all over the place including my mobile. It isn't that hard.

But no, again, this is like your virtual cyberpunching bag not cyberhorse and neither of you care if you are wrong or right or who it is you are affecting, only that you can all feel much better in knowing you at least had your say and "yeah, I told him didn't I" No one has said anything that means anything. Why are people so quick to judge and blatantly defame people with whom they have never dealt with or known.

Look around guys, I have been an open book throughout all of this but no not good enough. Look at the posts from the people who DO own software that they feel ripped off by. We are not one of them. Some of these remarks i do feel are approaching being defamatory and it is not justified. Justadash, We all cop criticism. Put up with it.

Those you rubbished are; Dr Huang, Merc and any company that competes with yours. Saying something is cheap, is rubbishing. Saying things like "I hate" etc is rubbishing. Saying something along these lines might help. We know there are other comparable products out there, we're not too sure just how close they come to ours. To be truthful, we are just flat out keeping up with the supply and development of ours.

We know we should be aware of other products and thank you for giving us some feedback on what our competitors are up to. For all the justadashwords on this subject there is one thing I can agree with and that is about the industry being cleaned up.

I take it that includes getting rid of those suppliers who peddle get-rich-quick schemes with promises of making easy money dubious testimonials and doubtful training sessions. As justadash and most astute punters know that there are a few of these around. Punters should use their brains and not their hard earned cash to gamble. Stick to weights, times and jockey histories and you a lot further than with these shonky buggers.

It would take a month of Sundays to get your intial investment. I say good riddens to bad rubbish. Dinodog Thanks for your words of wisdom. For what it's worth, I started with the best intentions and believe those intentions have been maintained. I and others have assumed this thread perhaps was not so and that type of post does mostly come from [competition] to start a thread bashing for reasons that need no explanation.

I do not rubbish whoever is in competition unless they are a fraud and have done good people for their money and lots of it and even THEN i will not mention names as can be seen here. I mentioned DH who I will mention no further to make a point. People are constantly ripping into vendors over price. If price was the determining factor to everything I'm retaliating and being argumentative. I really should be more diplomatic so I can get more sales and forget sharing what I know and trying to educate and safeguard people who aren't in the know Perhaps you are right Yes, I could be more business like about all of this and waffle on a like a 'plum in mouth' twat with BS about our I am not backwards in coming forwards.

I wish I could hold my tongue at times yes but I feel probably stubbornly at times that people are better off letting it all out in the open. Yes, politically speaking in that one post, someone may argue, if they were that way inclined and trying perhaps to antagonize rather than get to the guts of the topic, that I have mentioned these names during that topic with a negative connotation. If there has been anyone offended in doing so, I apologize wholeheartedly to only one of them, DH.

If you think I give a hoot about Mercedes Benz and using them in an example which was hardly a insult in itself I'm sure you will find something Debug, Let me get this part out of the way first before someone suggests it's perhaps an ulterior motive.

From a business point of view, legislating this industry would obviously benefit anyone with a decent software tool and services. It would give people interested in using such tools, the major benefit of being protected by an industry watchdog. Like I have said before, no one that I have approached cares and they are some of the people who if mentioned, you guys would be most bewildered seeing how long you have been members.

I have tried to develop an acquaintance with many companies to open this topic and have met closed doors and minds. The little company trying to do things to offer value either by being low priced or by offering better value or better software etc etc - than things up to 20 times their price, I guess is scared that all the fuss will have a negative affect on them as well, so just let sleeping dogs lie or perhaps it's something more sinister that some are worried about - who knows.

There are quite a few good softwares on the market but most struggle due to factors I will not go into other than to say, if you were a massively high priced product with lots of money already behind you, the opportunity to hit every home in Australia with big marketing dollars with the sole intent of making more dollars, telling them about the 50k tax free they can make in 20mins a day by pushing a button You know, "hey, I've been digging trenches my whole life and my back is stuffed.

I need a way out. I don't know zip about making money, punting, trading, racing and really I don't even know how to use a calculator let alone the computer but this mob said don't worry about all that, we'll help you" "can you do the same? Well, you could say that success is about a whole bunch of things and I am sure the present company would not need that explained and it isn't going to all of a sudden come just from a bit of software. In the same way, I have seen people punt, trade or otherwise et al out of desperation and get nowhere fast!

I have seen others with a different attitude make bucket loads and the difference was mentality and discipline. You see some on a losing streak and if they don't win back they will face whatever, let's say no petrol to get home from the TAB, whatever. They throw whatever strategy and discipline they had out the window and act out of desperation. Well it isn't just bloodstock racing punters that act that way. Some people will take a punt on anything if it will save them from their own mess or promise them riches quick and the greater the need, the more the will pay for it.

You have some companies offering finance for goodness sake I wont swear and suggesting to go and re finance their houses and use their equity. This isn't Blue Chips. This is racing. This IS speculative. Now some software works very well yes, no doubt, but to tell people to go mortgage their houses for 20k and "get the missus working from home while you go drive the truck all day" in my book is another example of mans inhumanity to man. Some of these people are retirees worried if they have enough to get them through, some are invalid.

Whatever your disposition it will be said "all the more reason you need to buy this" with no bias, indiscriminant and ruthless. To some I speak to, I say make this your last call to a horse racing software company and make your next call to a financial advisor There needs to be a code of ethics and a stand alone regulatory body. Not everyone can make money this way. Some people are destined for the 9 'til 5 5 'til 5. Now there will be someone again say that somehow I am not being politically correct I am sure.

I hope to one day, see that idea supported by other like minded companies for many, many reasons. Share market progs' for instance, you need a license from ASIC and you can't guarantee future returns or even predict them. That would at least be a start. Someone asks me how much they will make. How do I know? I don't have a crystal ball. How do people do that?

No really, please tell me. Dinodog - Before you say anything about attacking trench diggers LOL I've done plenty of hard labour Hey, for instance, when I was 16 I started a little company hand digging swimming pools when machinery couldn't get in the property. BTW, read over my posts Dinodog. There has been plenty of business I have handed to other suppliers or at least shown people the way to get there. You seem intent on this topic. What is your agenda? I know mine is not using this forum to sell our goods as you have said and I haven't even given the software a plug yet really.

Stupid me. Just maybe Dinodog, my intentions ARE honourable and you can misconstrue every little detail all you want. The layout overall can feel a little clunky and that it because it basically feels like it a mobile setup trying to play ball on a desktop. Navigation is easy and straightforward enough with the top menus and the side menus steering you around the site.

Bet management in the slip was nice and smooth though with the slip popping up as soon as a bet was added. Again though, going split screen on a desktop, it became a little trickier to handle and see. The horse racing section at Neds has been done superbly.

It is very, very good and users should enjoy it right out of the box. There is a lot of little extras in the horse racing section to enjoy, such as a useful money tracker which lets a user see which horses are getting the most betting attention , form guides, fluctuations, comments and featured bets. Plus, a super cool speed map. It is very solid and you can also see estimated tote odds and there is great bet control of exotics on your slip as well. You can also use your odds boost once a day on racing and they cover international racing too.

There is also Flexi betting on exotics as well. There's a lot going on. The sportsbook, in general, is pretty tight and solid. There is a good variety of major and what you may deem to be minor sports in there. You are going to find a heavier quote of submarkets and options on the bigger sports like your cricket, AFL and tennis. They do branch out and dip into politics markets and you can see specials as well through the left-hand menu.

If you like throwing together parlays and other multi's then they do offer a good Multi Builder allows you to pull together your bets in one handy place without all of the jumping around. This is only a mobile feature though. There is limited live in-play of course because of regulations but some are on there. Just log in to your account and hit the deposit links and you will see your options which are credit cards, POLi and the longer transfer routes of Bank Transfer and BPay.

You can withdraw out to your bank account which may take from 1 to 3 days to clear. There is a help section on the site which is clear and easy to get around to find answers. You can browse around by topic or just hit a search.

They seem to be pretty clear and concise with their support answers available. If you are still in need of help beyond the help section then you are able to contact them through a quick submission form there on the site. You can all call the customer support from 7 am to 11 pm AEDT or probably the most convenient way is to simply get a live chat opened.

So in summary Neds are new and they are putting a lot of stock into their tech-savviness with their platform cloud-hosted all created by self-confessed digital wizards. Anyway, the horse racing section is well worth a look, it is very strong, one of the best out there.

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